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Mary Wildfire's avatar

Here are the two things I think you left out. First, you talk about people needing to move to more rural locations as city jobs will dry up, but fail to note the other half of that equation: there will be much less gasoline and other fossil fuels to run farms. The thousand-acre farm managed by one guy whose wife has a town job so they can make ends meet will not be feasible when all that gas, and gas-derived fertilizer and pesticide and herbicide, is gone. Those things are essentially a substitute for human labor. So the people leaving cities will also be NEEDED as farm labor. And no, I'm not going to use the requisite word here, "back-breaking." I've been homesteading for decades, growing half our food, and my back is not broken. I enjoy most of my work.

But the other thing is the assumption that as the fossil fuels our energy-intensive way of life requires, luxury-supplying livelihoods will dry up and necessity-providing ones will expand. This is how it SHOULD be, but there is an alternative path, and this choice of paths, I think, is the fight that is shaping up now. The alternative is not ecomodernist fairy tales. It's a world divided between enclaves in which the rich continue to live lives of luxury for several decades, using up the last of the fossil fuel for production of renewable energy supplies--for themselves--and for jet travel. The rest of us will be left to struggle for survival in a hot, depleted world with chancy agriculture, whose goods will be appropriated by the rich if their regular supplies don't come through. I also envision prison-factories, to supply the slave labor needed for the elite lifestyle. No, this planet doesn't have the amount of minerals and energy required to fully replace the current fossil-fueled infrastructure with renewable energy and e-vehicles. But pretending it does allows public subsidy for the production of enough of these things to supply the ruling class with all they want.

Note that I'm not positing a conspiracy, necessarily--some of the elite may be thinking along these lines, but many may not be thinking about it much at all; those pushing a Green New Deal may imagine it will lead to a lovely world where everyone can live like upper-middle class Americans without serious pollution. While we who talk about the necessity of downscaling (gasp!) don't get a hearing.

Now tell me why my ugly vision is less realistic than yours. Please.

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SUE Speaks's avatar

I like how radically you think. We must think radically and hardly anyone does.

To be on your ride you must accept as a given the collapse of jobs. I’ve been thinking UBI, which is predicated on that, for a decade. People are blind. More jobs is a bedrock appeal to voters. The myopia is stunning. It has to be possible to sell something better. Maybe we just lack for good ideas and those of us who have such things should be talking.

Here’s a summary of objective elements of a game plan of mine: What's on A ROADMAP TO THE FUTURE? https://suzannetaylor.substack.com/p/whats-on-a-roadmap-to-the-future. Not that I have to be a flagpole if a better one comes along, but I haven’t found any other roadmap with any action on it now. Mine is for what we-the-people can do to change the direction we’re going. Here’s my changemaking track: https://suzannetaylor.substack.com/s/changemaking-now.

I’d argue against your vision in that it’s unnatural to go back to behavior from an earlier era – it’s like a fairy tale. This is an extraordinary time, but still I can’t see your bucolic vision by choice except if we detonate enough of humanity so that a small tribe regenerates the species.

Good material for conversation….

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