You are right. But, bear in mind that the size of the energy-based economy is shrinking so "the growth-based and growth-dependent capitalist industrial economy" will also be shrinking. In perpetual degrowth. And capitalism cannot exist without growth, so it will wither away.
Yes, it has begun to wither away already. And it will continue to wither away. But I don't think we should simply count on that and passively observe from the sidelines. This withering away needs our attention and participation. We need to prepare the way for another kind of culture and economy in the present so that it will be less brutal and ugly in the future. We need to prepare for a new way of life which is coming.
Totally agree. But the majority of participants, including Jeremy Lent, do not understand that the economy is "naturally" shrinking - so they are wasting valuable time arguing that degrowth is needed. Time which would be better spent focused on getting the degrowth which is occurring directed towards ecological ends.
Barry - It has been my experience that the overwhelming majority of people misunderstand what the world 'degrowth' refers to. They tend to believe degrowth, which was originally called décroissance in France, where the movement began, is exclusively about shrinking the economy deliberately -- or having it shrunk involuntarily. So folks tend to have a very one-dimensional mental picture of what degrowth is. But degrowth is about ever so much more than merely a shrinking economy (measured in GDP). It's also about trying to create an economy which meets real needs rather than superfluous wants, and for everyone rather than just a few. And it's about ever so much more than even just that. I highly recommend reading about degrowth, watching videos on the topic, listening to podcasts....
If you really understood what degrowth is, you'd probably not have said that folks were "wasting valuable time" on it.
Thanks James - I have been involved in Tim Morgan's surplus energy blog for over 5 years, discussing degrowth endlessly. The point I was trying to make is that Lent et al assume that something has to be done to achieve degrowth. IT IS HAPPENING ALREADY. THEY ARE WASTING TIME which could better be spent ensuring that it is ecological.
Barry, If you don't know what degrowth really is, you cannot criticize it. It's clear to me that you don't know what the word refers to. And, apparently, that failure of understanding on your part is of no interest to you.
You are right. But, bear in mind that the size of the energy-based economy is shrinking so "the growth-based and growth-dependent capitalist industrial economy" will also be shrinking. In perpetual degrowth. And capitalism cannot exist without growth, so it will wither away.
Yes, it has begun to wither away already. And it will continue to wither away. But I don't think we should simply count on that and passively observe from the sidelines. This withering away needs our attention and participation. We need to prepare the way for another kind of culture and economy in the present so that it will be less brutal and ugly in the future. We need to prepare for a new way of life which is coming.
Totally agree. But the majority of participants, including Jeremy Lent, do not understand that the economy is "naturally" shrinking - so they are wasting valuable time arguing that degrowth is needed. Time which would be better spent focused on getting the degrowth which is occurring directed towards ecological ends.
Barry - It has been my experience that the overwhelming majority of people misunderstand what the world 'degrowth' refers to. They tend to believe degrowth, which was originally called décroissance in France, where the movement began, is exclusively about shrinking the economy deliberately -- or having it shrunk involuntarily. So folks tend to have a very one-dimensional mental picture of what degrowth is. But degrowth is about ever so much more than merely a shrinking economy (measured in GDP). It's also about trying to create an economy which meets real needs rather than superfluous wants, and for everyone rather than just a few. And it's about ever so much more than even just that. I highly recommend reading about degrowth, watching videos on the topic, listening to podcasts....
If you really understood what degrowth is, you'd probably not have said that folks were "wasting valuable time" on it.
Thanks James - I have been involved in Tim Morgan's surplus energy blog for over 5 years, discussing degrowth endlessly. The point I was trying to make is that Lent et al assume that something has to be done to achieve degrowth. IT IS HAPPENING ALREADY. THEY ARE WASTING TIME which could better be spent ensuring that it is ecological.
Barry, If you don't know what degrowth really is, you cannot criticize it. It's clear to me that you don't know what the word refers to. And, apparently, that failure of understanding on your part is of no interest to you.